Jack Greenberg: hi i’m jack greenberg
Vikram Peters, Upland, CA: Must there be a continuing role for reservations for minorities in higher education?
Jack Greenberg: If you mean does the law require a continuing role for reservations, the answer is no. If you mean does the law permit it, the answer is yes. If you mean should reservations continue in higher education,I strongly believe that they should for reasons much like those set forth by Justice O’Connor in the University of Michigan case
Los Angeles, CA: What (if anything) should we do about the reality in today’s high schools where the campus is racially integrated but the students separate the common areas into “Africa Town” and “Little Mexico” (so named by students at high schools in Long Beach, CA)? Jack Greenberg: TRhatr is indeed unfortunate, although too often true. I think that school authorities should undertake programs and activities that encourage members of different groups to do things together.
Washington, D.C: Before he was assassinated Dr. King and partners were organizing a poor people’s march on Washington as part of a focus on economic injustice in America with its disproportionate impact on life and opportunity for minority communities (but also on white working class and poor as well). To what extent have traditional civil rights organizations focused and should they focus on economic-related injustices and build coalitions around “class” as well as “race” issues? What are the some of the key legal and political issues in this area and what are some of the most promising legal and policy strategies?
Jack Greenberg: The reality is that there are only so many things that an organization can do. Dr. King’s poor people’s march was doomed to failure from the start because it undertook a lobbying effort with regard to a very large number of social and economic issues and, worse, with no plans or capacity for followup. A focus on health care,education,housing would be all that a civil rights group could handle. Maybe some other issues, maybe dividing up the issues among various groups. Gathering facts in depth, publicizing judiciously.
Baltimore, MD: There seems to be a backlash against the idea of educational and other types of integration in the country at the same time that there are more and more calls for multiculturalism. Who are the people fighting integration efforts? Are they “regular people” or ideologues? And do those who oppose integration efforts have any ideas about how -they- would better integrate our country? Thank you, Professor Odeana Neal at the University of Baltimore and University of Baltimore Chapter of Student Hurricane Network.
Jack Greenberg: There is a network of right wing organizations that has been opposing integration and affirmative action. I can’t know what motivates them, although some are ideologues. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t sincere in their beliefs, although I think they are sadly mistaken. American Enterprise Institute, Heritage Foundation, Pacific LegalFoundations and others appear in case after case. I don’t think they are interested in integrating the country.
Fairfax, Va.: What effect do you think the Seattle and Kentucky hearings will have on future anti-affirmative action proponents?
Jack Greenberg: If they win their cases affirmative action and integration will suffer a major setback. but it may be that some other techniques can be worked out that can achieve similar results, like economic integration, or integration accordingd to standardized test scores. It’s hard to say whether the outcomes would be the same and, indeed, whether communities would embrace such plans.
Lincoln, NE: Nebraska has recently passed a law that divides the Omaha Public Schools in smaller governing disctricts largely and explicitly on the basis of race. The situation is complicated because the state’s only black legislator prosposed and supported the law. What do you think about this?
Jack Greenberg: I think it’s a bad idea no matter where it originated. It should be unconstitutional even under the courts’ restrictive standards that prevail today.
Chevy Chase, MD: The newspapers quoted leading civil rights lawyers as pessimistic at the conclusion of the oral arguments in two cases argued this term involving whether high schools could consider race in deciding which schools students could attend. What’s your prediction?
Jack Greenberg: Reports of the argument have made me pessimistic too. But, it’s not impossible that one or more justices who have the reputation of being inhospitable to integration will vote to uphold the plans.
New Orleans, LA: A large number of schools in New Orleans before Katrina recieved Title One funding due to large number of impoverished students. As a result, most impoverished schools were nearly 100% black. Do you believe that there is a compelling interest in Washington to change this trend of having these type of segregated schools? Most whites are against sending their kids to schools of such nature. Demographically most white kids in New Orleans attend private schools. The one sad impact is that many of these kids that attend such segregated schools have a narrow perspective of the world and of what they can do with their life.
Jack Greenberg: This doesn’t appear to be a question, rather it is a statement with which I agree. How to bring about change is not easy to figure out.
New York, New York: I’m reading the new biography of Earl Warren called “Justice for All.” The author describes the numerous challenges to school segregation that occurred pre-Brown. But he notes that the Supreme Court’s decision specifically overruled Plessy only with respect to school segregation, not with respect to the possible broader holding that “separate but equal” for all purposes was a violation of the 14th Amendment. My question is how, as a matter of litigation strategy, did Justice Marshall, Judge Motley, and you decide to argue the broader proposition in the face of the specifically narrow holding in Brown?
Jack Greenberg: Although Brown spoke only of schools, the Supreme Court immediately applied it to other types of governmentally approved segregation. Theatres, golf courses, local buses and so forth quickly came under the cotrol of Brown. We argued the broader proposition simply by asserting that Brown’s implication was that all governmentally approved segregation was prohibited. Our arguments were pretty simple, just that segregation violated the XIVth Amendment. The courts agreed.
What are the positive effect of multi-culturalism, other than a bid for political correctness? People don’t seem to care.
Jack Greenberg: Some people care. Political correctness could be part of it. But, depending on who you are, a multicultural background or environment can be quite valuable.
Washington DC: In light of resegretation trends, is it time for a new focus on school desegretation, at least in certain parts of the country? If so, what single forum (courts, media, legislatures, etc.) would you consider the most effective for reversing resegretation trends?
Jack Greenberg: I’m pretty sure I answered this a few questions back. All three, or whichever are available to be pressed into service.
Washington D.C.: Opponents of civil rights often use the language of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to argue that he did oppose or would have opposed affirmative action and to argue for an extreme view of “individual rights” versus the community or government in many areas including employment, social security privatization, or a social safety net. What’s the evidence about Dr. King’s actual views on affirmative action and his views on “individual rights” versus the community and government in a range of areas? How did the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund anticipate this attack on civil society and how shall we reclaim and balance the concept of individual liberty with equality and justice for all?
Jack Greenberg: Dr. King supported afirmative action. He praised India’s affirmative action programs and said that we would do well to embrace them in the US. He wrote that a society that has acted against black people for hundreds of years must do something special for them to equip them to compete on a just and equal basis."
Seattle, WA: What will be the effect of the rising black and Hispanic middle classes on affirmative action efforts? Will they support these efforts or no?
Jack Greenberg: That’s not clear right now. Hispanic civil rights organizations and black civil rights organizations have always worked cooperatively. Hispanics need help in integrating into general society and I think that they will support these efforts. On the other hand, most Hispanics don’t have the moral argument that arises out of history of slavery that blacks have. But they do have the argument that society will prosper to the extent that Hispanics are given the opportunity to fully contribute their abilities to society.
Cinncinnati, OH: Where will we see the next big battle over affirmative action? California?
Jack Greenberg: I think the California battle is over, isn’t it, at least as to higher education.It could happen in states with hihg profile hihger public education, maybe New York, Texas, Virginia?
Washington, D.C.: In the past several years, we have seen a deepening resegregation of schools and communities. In places like Washington, D.C., the poor performance of public schools has led to a push for vouchers and charter schools. What are the most promising legal and political strategies that you see in response to these trends?
Jack Greenberg: Of course, upgrading public education is the answer to dissatisfaction with public schools. Experience teaches that is not easy to do. The evidence about outcomes in charter and voucher schools is at least unclear. For every such school where proponents point to superior performance, there is contrary evidence elsewhere. I think there is no substitute for more and better trained teachers, smaller classes, higher standards. But that hasn’t been easy to achhieve in part because it’s expensive and the needed skills are in short supply, at least for what schools are able or willing to pay.
Santa Fe, NM: Has the U.S. military’s committment to affirmative action had any effects on other non-military programs?
Jack Greenberg: Sure, the Supreme Court cited military experience in the University of Michigan case.
Detroit, MI: Are there any viable ways to segregate inner-city schools?
Jack Greenberg: to some extent voluntary integration, but that’s now problematical pending the Supreme Court’s pending cases.
New York, NY: For law students who are interested in pursuing a legal career in Civil Rights, what steps should they take? I often hear how the best way to start out is in a law firm to get experience. Is this accurate, or are there other things that students should do?
Jack Greenberg: I don’t think law firm experience is necessary. Good experience is necessary, whether in a firm or public interest organization. The most important thing is to develop relationships with people and organizations in the public interest world. “Networking” is the term.
Los Angeles, CA: Will the Federal Government ever weigh in to clarify a Federal position on Affirmative Action?
Jack Greenberg: In recent years that hasn’t been likely. It could develop in time, but that calls for political changes.
Chicago, IL: Do you see an increased interest in Civil Rights among young people now? More so than say in the 80’s?
Jack Greenberg: I can’t make a comparison, but I do see substantial interest among students here at Columbia.
Jack Greenberg: Signing off, thank you.
